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DRM
08-19-2006, 06:37 PM
Okay, I know pretty much everyone hates MusicYo Kramer's, so I'll just say that I was "browsing" when I discovered this...

Kramer Baretta Reissue (http://www.musicyo.com/product_specs.asp?pf_id=1268)

WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY THINKING?!?!?!?

I've been on eBay alot and I know that used Baretta's can go from $400-$1000, depending on the condition, year made, etc. I think it's a great idea that Yo are remaking the Baretta (finally) but at that price, come on!

BananaHead
08-19-2006, 07:05 PM
They aren't thinking. At that price, they're going to sell to the few Kramer collectors that want one, and that's it. At that price, those aren't going to appeal to someone who is new to Kramer. ESPECIALLY when that person can buy a REAL fucking Kramer, which is BETTER, for LESS (and that actually comes with a Duncan pup, not some Gibson piece of shit). Everyone pretty much knows my feeling towards Musicyo.

And just for the record...how can Gibson "reissue" the Baretta when they didn't "issue" it in the first place?

RockStringBender
08-19-2006, 07:40 PM
It's a pretty serious axe, maple body, exact bod/neck spec's as the original '85 and the Pup is wound fairly hot. BUT- they missed my price point too. If they could get them out to the retail outlets so that they can be compared to the $1K axes on the market they might get recognized. Those ones they are selling at YO are the 2-3 black leftovers from the 1st 10 hand-built protos- the reds and whites soldout when they previewed them last weekend. Next batch will be production runs.

Although hard to find, you can get a real '85 for 800-1200 bucks. The guys that got those 7 last weekend say they are identical.

YO kinda lost me with those early years "kramers" they put out. I'm hearing that they are trying to get the American line a little closer to what Kramer freaks expect.

BeN5150
08-19-2006, 07:45 PM
Shit! not the RSB!!! after awhile, this forum is gonna get a lot of KF guys!

Ben

BananaHead
08-19-2006, 07:56 PM
I had a red 85 Baretta that was dead mint. Clean as brand new. It played and sounded awesome. I got it for 600 bucks. Close to half of what the "reissues" go for. I wouldn't trade it for any brand new Gibson. The only good thing that may come of this is that people will waste their money on a Gibson, and leave the actual Kramer Barettas for me:icon_lol:

BeN5150
08-19-2006, 07:59 PM
you get the bananas, I get the pointys, deal? lol

Ben

BananaHead
08-19-2006, 08:03 PM
you get the bananas, I get the pointys, deal? lol

Ben

Deal!!

RockStringBender
08-19-2006, 08:04 PM
I had a red 85 Baretta that was dead mint. Clean as brand new. It played and sounded awesome. I got it for 600 bucks. Close to half of what the "reissues" go for. I wouldn't trade it for any brand new Gibson. The only good thing that may come of this is that people will waste their money on a Gibson, and leave the actual Kramer Barettas for me:icon_lol:

I like yer plan. If I can snag every 6th or 8th old one that should leave plenty for everyone else.....

Ben, I thought I was the pointy monster? Which one do I need to pullout to get your new 'nanner from ya?:icon_bigg

mike2731
08-19-2006, 08:30 PM
The problem is, why would you want to buy a "reissue" when you can get the real thing for much cheaper? It's not really a common practice to make a "reissue" that costs more than an original. Looking at the Strats and Les Pauls that are reissued, there is a legitimate reason for it. The only reason I see for these are a money grab. Music Yo knows it can make a small selection of "reissue" guitars at a high profit margin and make some cash off the niche group that will buy them. I'm certainly not arguing the quality of these, because I trust the people that say they are very well made. The problem is, though, they're just trying to make a buck off of a small market (ie Kramer Forum members) who are interested in these things. They're going to continue doing it as long as those people keep buying.

If Music Yo really wanted to bring the Kramer name "back to life", they'd come out with some kick ass guitars that were modern, not just a nostalgia piece to be sold to the thirtysomething types. I really have my doubts as to whether Music Yo ever intends to do anything other than make entry level guitars, and feed these overpriced reissues to the Kramer fanatics.

RockStringBender
08-19-2006, 08:54 PM
The problem is, why would you want to buy a "reissue" when you can get the real thing for much cheaper? It's not really a common practice to make a "reissue" that costs more than an original. Looking at the Strats and Les Pauls that are reissued, there is a legitimate reason for it. The only reason I see for these are a money grab. Music Yo knows it can make a small selection of "reissue" guitars at a high profit margin and make some cash off the niche group that will buy them. I'm certainly not arguing the quality of these, because I trust the people that say they are very well made. The problem is, though, they're just trying to make a buck off of a small market (ie Kramer Forum members) who are interested in these things. They're going to continue doing it as long as those people keep buying.

If Music Yo really wanted to bring the Kramer name "back to life", they'd come out with some kick ass guitars that were modern, not just a nostalgia piece to be sold to the thirtysomething types. I really have my doubts as to whether Music Yo ever intends to do anything other than make entry level guitars, and feed these overpriced reissues to the Kramer fanatics.

Can't argue with that. I was surprised on the price-point they assigned this axe. I actually don't understand them trying to market to a handful of folks but they don't seem to have an engine setup for pimping these to the general public.

2 original '85's went on daBay in the last 4 weeks for 5 and 560 bucks respectively, further confusing me on YO's plan for this axe.

CaptainClaw
08-19-2006, 11:27 PM
It's not a reissue in my opinion. Are all the specs the same? Nope. Kramer never used Gibson pickups. Granted that's a small thing, and easily remedied, but on an $1,100 guitar with the word "REISSUE" in the title? Come on, boys and girls.

I'm the first to admit I'd love to buy a brand new Kramer Pacer dinky or something similar with the pointy headstock (fuck Gibsons Epiphone looking version on their El Cheapo models... looks like shit), but not for $1,100. I'll go buy a brand new Jackson for half that. Thanks anyway.

Talisman
08-20-2006, 09:51 AM
Whys this post in Kramer imports? When in Fact the guitar your talking about is 100 per cent USA Made.
Seems like a lot of negativity towards this guitar. Im holding my judgement until i have played one. I suppose most of you havent either. Yes i have played an original.

Adam You sure you can purchase a Jackson brand new at half the price with a tremolo as good as an OFR.? Most Jacksons at that price (500-600) $ have licencesed trems and designed by pickups. Those Gibson pickups are hot .

I must be honest with you guys i dont understand the bashing Gibson gets from you guys. Ok 70s the quality was suspect. But just have a look through your vinyl collection and see how many of your classic all time songs were recorded with a Gibson.
Thats all for now
Talisman.

wfojon
08-20-2006, 10:01 AM
Really, just take a look at MF and see what you can get for a grand, not much except a name. A quality built in America axe with a real Floyd is a bargan at 1000 IMO.
Jon

DRM
08-20-2006, 11:31 AM
Looking back at all my favorite songs, most were recorded on Jackson's or Fender's. Might have used Gibson's, dunno, but when I see these guys on stage they're not playing Gibson's. And the reason bashing Gibson, I'm not doubting their quality at all. Gibson make great guitars, but they aren't Kramer. A guy in town is a Charvel/Kramer fanatic and he has a shitload of Kramer's, new and old. His '85 Baretta sounds and plays so much better than his 424 Striker from Yo. Now, the 424 is NOT a bad guitar at all, it's actually really good, but it's NOT one of his old Kramer's. However, I understand that Gibson aren't trying to BE the old Kramer, but they need to expand their audience beyond people in their 30's and 40's who will never appreciate what they are making and get a new audience of people my age; MUCH LIKE KRAMER DID IN THE EIGHTIES WITH EVH!!! If they made a guitar that one of the big boys would play, they'd be back in business and be kicking ass again.

BeN5150
08-20-2006, 12:19 PM
I like yer plan. If I can snag every 6th or 8th old one that should leave plenty for everyone else.....

Ben, I thought I was the pointy monster? Which one do I need to pullout to get your new 'nanner from ya?:icon_bigg


Im not much of a banana fan, but the only Kramer I have is a banana (you wanna make me an offer? lmao). I must admit, they look much better in person. but pointy is home for me:thumbs:thumbs:

Ben

CaptainClaw
08-20-2006, 12:53 PM
Gibson make great guitars, but they aren't Kramer. A guy in town is a Charvel/Kramer fanatic and he has a shitload of Kramer's, new and old. His '85 Baretta sounds and plays so much better than his 424 Striker from Yo. Now, the 424 is NOT a bad guitar at all, it's actually really good, but it's NOT one of his old Kramer's. However, I understand that Gibson aren't trying to BE the old Kramer, but they need to expand their audience beyond people in their 30's and 40's who will never appreciate what they are making and get a new audience of people my age; MUCH LIKE KRAMER DID IN THE EIGHTIES WITH EVH!!! If they made a guitar that one of the big boys would play, they'd be back in business and be kicking ass again.

This is actually a pretty good point IMHO, bro :thumbs:

Nobody can deny that some of Gibson's most popular axes (Les Paul for instance) are some badass guitars. I've played one or two that I would gladly pay double the price of the new Kramer 85 model. One of my favorites as of late is the Jimmy Page Les Paul. Has anyone tried one of those? Pretty sweet guitar, and a thin neck compared to other Pauls that I've played. It's got a hefty price tag but it's oh so sweet. I also lust after the Gibson flying V (not the Epis... I dislike their tone and feel), which I've played before and it was a scorcher.

All I'm saying is that if you're going to reissue something, shouldn't it be true to the original? Maybe the gibson pickup is wound similarly to the original? I don't know. Also, I could honestly care less where the guitar was made (USA, Japan, whatever) because in many cases I don't think that has any real bearing any longer. I've played Japanese made guitars that would blow an American built guitar out of the water, so the Made In USA sticker doesn't do anything for me. It used to, but no longer. I own a Japanese built Jackson that is hands down my favorite axe... over all of my Kramers (and I own 8 of them so I'm a fan trust me lol). It's a solid guitar, and wasn't built in the USA.

The point was also made that you can buy the original for less than the price of the new one. If you guys recall, MusicYo had prices that were more appropriate not long ago on the 1984 and JS models, but raised them to, in my opinion, are too high. I know some of you guys think otherwise and that's cool. I just wouldn't pay that much for one when I can get the original for less :eusa_hand

V King
08-20-2006, 01:08 PM
I just wouldn't pay that much for one when I can get the original for less :eusa_hand

I agree ,why buy a Copy/Reissue when you can get the real thing for less.It does look like a Good Axe but over priced maybe. But :eusa_thin are their any other guitars you can get with the same specs and a Floyd for a Grand! Thats NEW!! havnt seen any so maybe its not so bad :shrug: Then again I dont look for them, If it aint A Lefty or a V I aint Watching/looking:icon_lol:

BananaHead
08-20-2006, 01:17 PM
Whys this post in Kramer imports? When in Fact the guitar your talking about is 100 per cent USA Made.
Seems like a lot of negativity towards this guitar. Im holding my judgement until i have played one. I suppose most of you havent either. Yes i have played an original.

Adam You sure you can purchase a Jackson brand new at half the price with a tremolo as good as an OFR.? Most Jacksons at that price (500-600) $ have licencesed trems and designed by pickups. Those Gibson pickups are hot .

I must be honest with you guys i dont understand the bashing Gibson gets from you guys. Ok 70s the quality was suspect. But just have a look through your vinyl collection and see how many of your classic all time songs were recorded with a Gibson.
Thats all for now
Talisman.

This post would actually be best found in the non-existant GIBSON section, because the new Gibson guitars aren't Kramers.

Personally, I don't like Gibson. I have played several, from many different time periods, and I have hated the feel and sound of all of them. That's just me. I'm not trying to say that my microcosmic experiences with Gibson are the final word on them. A lot of people like them. That's fine for them. But the bottom line is that just because you purchase the name Kramer, that you have suddenly resurrected the old company itself. Gibson bought the name probably as a way to market shitty, Korean made guitars and not lose face. Notice how they didn't sell them in stores, where you could actually play one (and grimace). I think Mike hit it in the head when he said that they are just feeding these over-priced reissues to the niche market. That's why it took them so long to finally make the damn things. They had to be absolutley sure that the niche market would buy. If they actually gave a shit they wouldnt have taken years (yes, years) to deliver the promised "reissues". There is just now way to justify pricing a "reissue" more than the original.

shredmeister666
08-20-2006, 02:35 PM
Just wondering, but what would a brand new baretta have cost you back in '85? If an original 1985 baretta cost like a grand new back in the day, the price tag might make a little more sense. Also, doesnt it piss you off that gibson seems to be using kramer to make crappy fender rip offs?Do we really need ANOTHER crappy version of a strat/paul? heres a link of what their new gutiars are https://secure.musicyo.com/sneakpeeks.asp?pic=SPClassic

half of them are strats/teles! wtf!!!

BeN5150
08-20-2006, 04:27 PM
a lot of the stuff on the link you put Phil, is already gone. Such as the teles.

Later,

Ben

DRM
08-20-2006, 04:54 PM
This is actually a pretty good point IMHO, bro :thumbs:

Nobody can deny that some of Gibson's most popular axes (Les Paul for instance) are some badass guitars. I've played one or two that I would gladly pay double the price of the new Kramer 85 model. One of my favorites as of late is the Jimmy Page Les Paul. Has anyone tried one of those? Pretty sweet guitar, and a thin neck compared to other Pauls that I've played. It's got a hefty price tag but it's oh so sweet. I also lust after the Gibson flying V (not the Epis... I dislike their tone and feel), which I've played before and it was a scorcher.

All I'm saying is that if you're going to reissue something, shouldn't it be true to the original? Maybe the gibson pickup is wound similarly to the original? I don't know. Also, I could honestly care less where the guitar was made (USA, Japan, whatever) because in many cases I don't think that has any real bearing any longer. I've played Japanese made guitars that would blow an American built guitar out of the water, so the Made In USA sticker doesn't do anything for me. It used to, but no longer. I own a Japanese built Jackson that is hands down my favorite axe... over all of my Kramers (and I own 8 of them so I'm a fan trust me lol). It's a solid guitar, and wasn't built in the USA.

The point was also made that you can buy the original for less than the price of the new one. If you guys recall, MusicYo had prices that were more appropriate not long ago on the 1984 and JS models, but raised them to, in my opinion, are too high. I know some of you guys think otherwise and that's cool. I just wouldn't pay that much for one when I can get the original for less :eusa_hand


I played a Les Paul Standard a few months ago that, if it wasn't 2 grand, woulda put on hold and sold my body until I had it. Those BurstBucker Pro's are the shit!

I don't know why, but I find the Les Paul to be a "boring" guitar, much like the Strat. Everyone has one, and they're so cliche to the rock/blues genre. I went to a blues/jazz festival in Atlanta a while back and one guy was playing a BC Rich Gunslinger through a Carvin Legacy. Everyone else had either Strats with a Twin Reverb or an ES-335 through a Hot Rod Deluxe. It was disgusting. :eusa_snoo

As for the Jimmy Page Paul, I wish I could play one. They look like sweet guitars. I've played the Slash sig and a Zakk Wylde sig, they're really nice, but I just don't need the ego massage of buying a $4000 guitar. Does anybody NEED a $4000 guitar when an $800 one can do the job just as well?

...

Of course we do!

RockStringBender
08-20-2006, 05:03 PM
Just wondering, but what would a brand new baretta have cost you back in '85? If an original 1985 baretta cost like a grand new back in the day, the price tag might make a little more sense.

The list price for a Baretta in 85 ans 86 was $899.00. plus case.

mike2731
08-20-2006, 05:07 PM
Again, who are the reissue guitars being made for? Thirtysomething Kramer fanatics. Period. End of story. They're making money in a niche market off of the nostalgia end. Music Yo has no intentions of doing anything more. I defy anyone to show me evidence to the contrary. All they're doing is making guitars that already exist, just because some people will pay "new" prices for them. They're doing it with the Baretta, and the Night Swan is next.

Gibsons? Nice guitars, but certainly not perfect. I've heard many complaints about finish flaws, etc..on high end Gibsons. Add to it they are BY FAR the most OVERPRICED company around, and I see the Gibson defense as weak.

No one ever said the reissue guitars weren't good, but I just don't see the point in them. Can you tell me of any other "reissues" that sell for twice what the originals do? Originals are american made, real Floyds, and Duncans. DUNCANS....REAL pickups. I can't imagine many $1000+ guitars using no name pickups. Face it, the "reissues" are a money grab.

DRM
08-20-2006, 05:14 PM
Man, I opened a fuckin can of worms with this one, didn't I?

shredmeister666
08-20-2006, 05:43 PM
How many of these things are they gonna sell? Wouldn't the niche market rather have the original and note the overpriced knockoff? I really dont understand the whole music yo marketing strategy. I think david is right, they need to get a couple of famous players on their endorsement list, which is a complete joke compared to any other brand. http://www.musicyo.com/endorsee.asp check it out

BeN5150
08-20-2006, 06:05 PM
all of their endorsees are freom the heyday. almost no one on the list still plays them, or new ones.

IbanHo
08-21-2006, 06:14 AM
"Hertz and Silence is a French power metal band with five musicians......"

and

"You ! Machine" album speaks about the dangers of society that can suffer humanity. "

Now that deserves a WTF if I ever saw one!

shredmeister666
08-21-2006, 06:47 AM
yeah like I said, yo endorsees are a joke.

axebuilder
08-21-2006, 08:36 AM
I'm more of a late 80's Kramer fan (non rounded bodies) :thumbs:

CaptainClaw
08-21-2006, 09:09 AM
I'm more of a late 80's Kramer fan (non rounded bodies) :thumbs:

I'm with you on that brotha. I have a real fondness for the later dinky bodies (Sustainers, Pacer Custom I/II, Baretta II, etc). They are more rockworthy hehe :thumbs:

Orchid
08-21-2006, 09:25 AM
+1:thumbs: I prefer the later days of Kramer!
Pointys and dinky style bodies for me:icon_wink
I'd take a pointy Baretta over a Banana anyday.

Talisman
08-21-2006, 09:42 AM
All they're doing is making guitars that already exist, just because some people will pay "new" prices for them. They're doing it with the Baretta, and the Night Swan is next.

Gibsons? Nice guitars, but certainly not perfect. I've heard many complaints about finish flaws, etc..on high end Gibsons. Add to it they are BY FAR the most OVERPRICED company around, and I see the Gibson defense as weak.

No one ever said the reissue guitars weren't good, but I just don't see the point in them. Can you tell me of any other "reissues" that sell for twice what the originals do? Originals are american made, real Floyds, and Duncans. DUNCANS....REAL pickups. I can't imagine many $1000+ guitars using no name pickups. Face it, the "reissues" are a money grab.

Isn't every company Making Guitars that already exist?? Unless you are the original Ala Fender,Gibson, Martin and Gretsch??
Cant say how you can say Gibson are the most overpriced company around.Considering they are 80 per cent hand made. Only a little CNC for pickup route

Then you point out, that you don't know of any reissues that sell for twice what the originals do. Well 20 yrs ago they were selling for $800. So in 20 yrs a price rise of $200. Sounds like a good deal to me.You dont include used prices for like for like. Plus it is real American not a japanese made neck and body. Stuck together in the USA.

Plus wheres the no name pickup bit come from?? Its a USA made Gibson quality pickup. There is more than Seymour making pickups you know. But then again you should no that as you use Kramer and ESP Mike.
Wait til you have played one before you make judgement. Or if you know your guitars that well. Why not try a blindfold test. Your old Baretta V's New one. You might be pleasantly surprised. If you would care to admit it.:eusa_danc
Probably be hearing from you soon
Talisman

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 10:03 AM
i dont think Gibson's are %80 hand made, maybe %10, tops.

But I am also a guy who prefers the later Kramer's. And the whole "USA means good quality" is horseshit, just because its made in the US doesnt mean its automatically good. Ive played Gibson's that cost $4000 that don't play as good as my Epiphone. lmao

axebuilder
08-21-2006, 10:14 AM
I saw a video that shows haow gibson "pauls" are made.

1. old guy picks through a pile of wood.
2. guy puts it on a planer (electric one not hand planing)
3. guy cuts rough shape on bandsaw by hand
4. Guy tosses it on CNC table for routering, shaping (arch top)
5. Guy glues neck on (fingerboards are being inlayed by a few older ladies)
6.tossed on conveyor for painting
7. a guy buffs the guitar out
8. Final assembly intall pups bridge and solders.

Talisman
08-21-2006, 10:26 AM
i dont think Gibson's are %80 hand made, maybe %10, tops.


Well before you start thinking out loud. Do some homework before you spout out nonsense like your above quote.

Ps Eric if i was you i would be bringing that video back to the store and demand a refund. They must of mixed it up with an ESP Video.
Talisman:eusa_whis

axebuilder
08-21-2006, 10:42 AM
No sir it was the gibson factory in Tn,
It was on digital cable on Guitar Express, and at the end they were in a Gibson custom shop store.

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 10:52 AM
regardless as to if they are hand made or not. I would still cosider them a huge ripoff.

MapleShredder
08-21-2006, 10:55 AM
+1:thumbs: I prefer the later days of Kramer!
Pointys and dinky style bodies for me:icon_wink
I'd take a pointy Baretta over a Banana anyday.

+1, Amen to that bro! :notworthy

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 10:56 AM
and also, why the hell are we even talking about Gibson? I thought this was "shredguitars".com, not "Rip off, only surviving due to Zakk Wylde, guitars".com, I wouldnt even play one if they gave it to me for free, then paid me. Just my opinion, and who ever says my opinion doesnt matter can go to hell, because my opinion is just as valid as theirs.

Talisman
08-21-2006, 11:07 AM
regardless as to if they are hand made or not. I would still cosider them a huge ripoff.

Well lets say you pay $2500 for a Gibson. You buy good its gonna last longer than you ever will. So after 30 yrs of being your main axe its only cost you less than $84 a year. Dont sound bad to me. Then of course you could always sell that Rip Off guitar to someone after 30 yrs and make a profit. Gibson's don't sound that bad after all.

Now back to that video. Does it show you the neck being shaped? Binding being cleaned up after spraying?
Whats wrong with Women working on the inlays??
Or old Men selecting the wood from the Timber storage??
As far as tossing the guitar on Conveyors for spraying, thought you had more about you than that.
Talisman:eusa_whis

axebuilder
08-21-2006, 11:11 AM
never said there was anything wrong with old ladies or man just typing what I saw, I could go into more detail but lunch is only so long. Damn dude you act like I'm attacking you? I'm just saying what I saw, neck was shaped by machine

QUOTE=Talisman;15179]Well lets say you pay $2500 for a Gibson. You buy good its gonna last longer than you ever will. So after 30 yrs of being your main axe its only cost you less than $84 a year. Dont sound bad to me. Then of course you could always sell that Rip Off guitar to someone after 30 yrs and make a profit. Gibson's don't sound that bad after all.

Now back to that video. Does it show you the neck being shaped? Binding being cleaned up after spraying?
Whats wrong with Women working on the inlays??
Or old Men selecting the wood from the Timber storage??
As far as tossing the guitar on Conveyors for spraying, thought you had more about you than that.
Talisman:eusa_whis[/QUOTE]

MapleShredder
08-21-2006, 11:11 AM
and also, why the hell are we even talking about Gibson? I thought this was "shredguitars".com, not "Rip off, only surviving due to Zakk Wylde, guitars".com, I wouldnt even play one if they gave it to me for free, then paid me. Just my opinion, and who ever says my opinion doesnt matter can go to hell, because my opinion is just as valid as theirs.

Amen brotha, your opinion does matter. :thumbs: I agree with you...I've had Gibson Les Pauls before and they are a complete ripoff in price for what you get. I'd rather buy 4 or 5 Kramer/ESP guitars before buying another Les Paul.

Talisman
08-21-2006, 11:40 AM
Well Eric i saw a show about the Nashville plant and it sounds like we were watching two totally different shows on Gibson. I just dont understand the bashing Gibson constantly keep getting.
Peace
Talisman

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 12:14 PM
I personally think that Gibson may have been good back in the day, so they used that to their advantage, by being able to make half-assed quality guitars, and selling them for rediculous prices. I'm with Jeff, I'd rather take a Kramer, ESP or Jackson (even pro series play better than Gibsons, just throw in a couple hundred extra $ and put in a real FR, and pickups of your choice.)

Talisman
08-21-2006, 12:28 PM
Ben the reason im mentioning Gibson on Shred guitars is because i can shred on my SG. Also the fastest guitarist i have ever seen is Pat Metheny. Guess what he uses. Thats right a Gibson ES175. You know the one that looks like your grandad should be playing.
Talisman

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 12:41 PM
the double neck? I almost got one for free, If I had got it, I would have just hung it on my wall, out of respect for Jimmy Page, or sold it and bought some Kramers! I just cant get over the necks, that what turned me off them. Also the pickups/sound from every one Ive played didnt come out great

Pacertracer
08-21-2006, 12:46 PM
What banana do you have? Year? model?

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 12:59 PM
who me?

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 01:11 PM
well if your asking me, an 1985 Condor

Pacertracer
08-21-2006, 01:54 PM
Yes...

Sorry, I tried to answer your entry but it all went horribly wrong!

Talisman
08-21-2006, 01:54 PM
No Ben your thinking of the Gibson 1275 SG Double neck. Im on about the ES175.:redneck2:
Talisman

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 02:02 PM
Yes...

Sorry, I tried to answer your entry but it all went horribly wrong!

lol :icon_lol:

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 02:03 PM
No Ben your thinking of the Gibson 1275 SG Double neck. Im on about the ES175.:redneck2:
Talisman


Aw, the hollowbody, Country style. It a nice looking guitar. But not for me

CaptainClaw
08-21-2006, 02:06 PM
Two words: PLAY NICE

Let me get this out in the open too: Gibson sucks, Kramer sucks, Fender sucks, Jackson sucks, ESP sucks, Schecter sucks, Charvel sucks, Robin sucks, Carvin sucks, etc etc etc... DAISY ROCK OWNS YOU!!!

MapleShredder
08-21-2006, 02:09 PM
and...maple necks suck, claw necks suck, rosewood necks suck and ebony board necks suck too !!!

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 02:12 PM
I love a good plywood neck

CaptainClaw
08-21-2006, 02:13 PM
and...maple necks suck, claw necks suck, rosewood necks suck and ebony board necks suck too !!!

Ok now you've gone too far :faint2::roll:

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 02:13 PM
Two words: PLAY NICE

O K :icon_sad:

:icon_lol: :icon_lol: lets give it up for the captain

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Orchid
08-21-2006, 02:13 PM
Two words: PLAY NICE

Let me get this out in the open too: Gibson sucks, Kramer sucks, Fender sucks, Jackson sucks, ESP sucks, Schecter sucks, Charvel sucks, Robin sucks, Carvin sucks, etc etc etc... DAISY ROCK OWNS YOU!!!

But Hello Kitty owns all!!!
http://shop.sanrio.com/images/60599.gif
:drool2:

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 02:18 PM
lol, i saw those yesterday. just a way to get young girls into playing Hilary Duff, or If we're lucky, Heart

CaptainClaw
08-21-2006, 02:23 PM
I SAID DAISY ROCK GODDAMMIT!!!

http://www.strungoutguitars.com/archiveimages/fullsize/budney&Daisy.jpg

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 02:24 PM
Harmony!!!!

MapleShredder
08-21-2006, 02:28 PM
But Hello Kitty owns all!!!
http://shop.sanrio.com/images/60599.gif
:drool2:


I think my daughter would love this guitar. Just needs a chrome Floyd Rose and a pink DiMarzio pickup.

MapleShredder
08-21-2006, 02:30 PM
I SAID DAISY ROCK GODDAMMIT!!!

http://www.strungoutguitars.com/archiveimages/fullsize/budney&Daisy.jpg

Someone looks like they are enjoying themselves a little too much. :icon_lol: Hey, where is the guitar strap ? :eusa_eh:

Orchid
08-21-2006, 02:30 PM
Those inlays on that Dasiy own a Claw neck anyday!

MapleShredder
08-21-2006, 02:34 PM
And it has the pointy headstock too!

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 02:35 PM
I cant stand all this fighting!! Time to go play my mandolin lmao

Orchid
08-21-2006, 02:37 PM
Guys, I really think we need a Daisy Rock section on ShredGuitars.
I guarentee the number of members will rise:icon_lol:
This monster screams SHRED!
http://www.mooresmusicemporium.com/images/DaisyRockPixiePack.jpg

MapleShredder
08-21-2006, 02:40 PM
"Cuz pink is my favorite color" (Aerosmith song)

mike2731
08-21-2006, 04:55 PM
Isn't every company Making Guitars that already exist?? Unless you are the original Ala Fender,Gibson, Martin and Gretsch??

There is a difference between a "reissue" and a guitar with a similar body shape. You're reaching....

Cant say how you can say Gibson are the most overpriced company around.Considering they are 80 per cent hand made. Only a little CNC for pickup route

Easily. You can get guitars of similar or better quality for cheaper. Talking about guitars here that are $2K-3K new for standard lines, and $5K-$10K for their "Custom Shop" models. That's a lot of money, to me at least.

Then you point out, that you don't know of any reissues that sell for twice what the originals do. Well 20 yrs ago they were selling for $800. So in 20 yrs a price rise of $200. Sounds like a good deal to me.You dont include used prices for like for like. Plus it is real American not a japanese made neck and body. Stuck together in the USA.

They listed for $800, so I doubt they sold for that. Besides, you still didn't tell me of any reissue guitars that sell for twice the regular price. :eusa_thin

I'm glad you think it's a deal. I personally don't think so. you certainly don't have to agree. I'm not knocking the guitar, I just don't really care much for what they're being marked as. If you feel differently, that's fine. I don't care if you like them. It's a free country bro, feel free to like them if you want. I just happen to disagree with you about them, and I doubt highly any amount of verbiage is going to change either of our opinions.

As for American vs Japan, I'd comment that ESP's Custom Shop makes as nice, if not nicer guitars than anything custom made in America. Just because something's american made doesn't mean it's highest quality, or any better than anything else.

Plus wheres the no name pickup bit come from?? Its a USA made Gibson quality pickup. There is more than Seymour making pickups you know. But then again you should no that as you use Kramer and ESP Mike.

Of course there are more than Duncans. I happen to use quite a few kinds. ESP's didn't come with Duncans back in the day, were you aware? Guess not. The thing is, if they're home wound pickups, that should actually lower the cost of the guitar, wouldn't you think?

Of course, since this is a "reissue" guitar, the pickups are made to emulate Duncans. I don't care how good Gibson's may be, I have a feeling the Duncans will be better at being Duncans, right?

Wait til you have played one before you make judgement. Or if you know your guitars that well. Why not try a blindfold test. Your old Baretta V's New one. You might be pleasantly surprised. If you would care to admit it.

Again, didn't say there was anything wrong with the actual guitar. If you would actually look back at my original comments about it you'll see I said...

I'm certainly not arguing the quality of these, because I trust the people that say they are very well made.

So, I really don't understand what you're digging for there. However, I'll tell you this about the blindfold test, even if they sound the same, I'll have paid about HALF the amount for the real one. Seems like you're actually strengthening my point there. Thank you! :thumbs:

BTW, which Kramer Forum guy are you again??

DRM
08-21-2006, 05:14 PM
Okay, I'm gonna end this shit right now.

Gibson's are almost, ALMOST 80% handmade. Maybe around 70%. I HAVE TOURED THE FACTORY!!! Yes, there is ALOT of handwork involved, especially in the final stages, but alot of it is CNC and machinework. The frets have no more attention than an American Strat and they really don't spend alot of time setting them up. I did not witness the inlaying process, so no idea there. The only part that is really "hands-on" is the painting. That WAS performed by a person. All the wiring was done by hand, but the physical CONSTRUCTION of the gutiar was machine. For $2000-$10000, you buy a name. However, EVERY GUITAR COMPANY IS THE SAME!!!!!!!!! ESP Japan charge an assload of money that some LTD's (specifically, the 1000 series) could POSSIBLY (not really) rival. I did an online quote for my dream ESP....came out $5500. That's an assload of money; period. Gibson charge around the same for a basic custom shop model like I made on the ESP site, but is it an ESP? Hell no. It won't play or sound like an ESP. But in the same respect, only a Gibson can be a Gibson. Some Les Paul's truly ARE worth the money, but it comes down to feeling the guitar as an extension of your body. Some guitars feel like an extra appendage, while some feel like shit to other people. Would I pick an ESP, Gibson, or Jackson custom shop guitar? I honestly don't know. I'd pick a guitar that I want, I don't give a fuck about the name or where it was built and how it was built.

After a certain point, all guitars become so similar in tone and playability it's absolutely crazy that we pay so much money for a guitar from a Custom Shop that a production model could do just as well.

So let's stop the fighting over stupid shit and celebrate the guitar as a family; be it a Gibson, Jackson, Kramer, Fender, Carvin, ESP, or a fuckin Squier, IT DOESN'T MATTER. We are all guitarists and need to start respecting each others opinions towards the instrument.

I feel better now.



And Adam, YOU ARE THE MAN FOR THE DAISY ROCK PIC!

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 05:23 PM
lol, Well said

CaptainClaw
08-21-2006, 05:31 PM
So let's stop the fighting over stupid shit and celebrate the guitar as a family; be it a Gibson, Jackson, Kramer, Fender, Carvin, ESP, or a fuckin Squier, IT DOESN'T MATTER. We are all guitarists and need to start respecting each others opinions towards the instrument.

Agreed 100%. It's not worth it guys. Shred 'em up... that's all I ask :thumbs:

And Adam, YOU ARE THE MAN FOR THE DAISY ROCK PIC!

Hahaha thanks bro. Found it on Google and it just fit. I mean, dude come on... he's actually SHREDDING WITH A DAISY ROCK!!! You can't get any more rock and roll than that, bro. :notworthy

Talisman
08-21-2006, 05:50 PM
They listed for $800, so I doubt they sold for that. Besides, you still didn't tell me of any reissue guitars that sell for twice the regular price. :eusa_thin

1962 Reissue Strat
1954 6120 reissue
1965 Byrdland reissue

As for American vs Japan, I'd comment that ESP's Custom Shop makes as nice, if not nicer guitars than anything custom made in America. Just because something's american made doesn't mean it's highest quality, or any better than anything else.

http://www.giffinguitars.com/

Case Closed.



Of course there are more than Duncans. I happen to use quite a few kinds. ESP's didn't come with Duncans back in the day, were you aware? Guess not. The thing is, if they're home wound pickups, that should actually lower the cost of the guitar, wouldn't you think?

Why would it. You get what you pay for!!

Of course, since this is a "reissue" guitar, the pickups are made to emulate Duncans. I don't care how good Gibson's may be, I have a feeling the Duncans will be better at being Duncans, right?

I think you will find they have emulated the Schaller Golden 50's for the 85 reissue. Yes you could get a JB in 85. But an email from Epiphone /Kramer confirmed this. :wavey:



Again, didn't say there was anything wrong with the actual guitar. If you would actually look back at my original comments about it you'll see I said...

Oh im sorry i forgot to. Real Busy.



So, I really don't understand what you're digging for there. However, I'll tell you this about the blindfold test, even if they sound the same, I'll have paid about HALF the amount for the real one. Seems like you're actually strengthening my point there. Thank you! :thumbs:

Well i suppose if your on a tight budget thats fine. But To me theres nothing better than a beautiful new guitar. What ever the cost. What do ya say?

BTW, which Kramer Forum guy are you again??

Ive answered the lot i think. Im sure you will let me know in a while.
But the last Question . Sorry cant Help you there. Im guessing from that response your a Paranoid being. Or some people from another site dont like you??
Once again sorry cant help you there. But hand on heart im no member of any Perticular branded guitar forum. I joined this through a search engine and it seemed to cover most styles and interests of mine in gutar playing.
Oh well you live and learn. Guess a new guy dont stick much chance against such a clever guy like you. :gnight:

mike2731
08-21-2006, 06:52 PM
1962 Reissue Strat
1954 6120 reissue
1965 Byrdland reissue

Wow. So you're telling me the reissues sell for twice the originals? I didn't realize I could buy an authentic 1962 Strat for about $350 (since the reissues sell for around $700 on ebay).

think you will find they have emulated the Schaller Golden 50's for the 85 reissue.

My bad. It is a Schaller. A true reissue should use Schallers, IMO. The authentic pickup will sound better than an attempt to emulate it.

Oh im sorry i forgot to. Real Busy.

I can tell.

Well i suppose if your on a tight budget thats fine. But To me theres nothing better than a beautiful new guitar. What ever the cost. What do ya say?

Or maybe you need shiny new expensive toys to try to compensate for other areas of your life that are lacking?

I'd personally rather have 2 used originals than 1 shiny new one. Tell you what, I'll buy 2 used, you buy 1 new one, and come back and we'll compare them in 10 years and see what's a better deal.

But the last Question . Sorry cant Help you there. Im guessing from that response your a Paranoid being. Or some people from another site dont like you??

I'm sorry. You probably weren't even aware there is a Kramer Forum. Whether I'm liked or disliked anywhere online, I can tell you one thing. I will be using the same screen name and won't be afraid of speaking my opinion be it popular or not. Like me or hate me, I speak my mind as mike2731, not as anything else.

Once again sorry cant help you there. But hand on heart im no member of any Perticular branded guitar forum. I joined this through a search engine and it seemed to cover most styles and interests of mine in gutar playing.

Stick around. I certainly wouldn't want a small difference of opinion about a guitar to keep you from becoming a contributing member to this site. :icon_bigg

Can I ask, just where did you get your hands on experience with the 85 Baretta reissue anyway???

DRM
08-21-2006, 07:41 PM
Well, I TRIED to end the bitchin, but whateva.

RockStringBender
08-21-2006, 08:13 PM
Wow! This is intense! It's like a transription of a therapy session that went wrong..... waaayyyy wrong...

Heads up Guys! Anybody that has an axe that they just can't stand because of the label on it or when it was made please send it to Orlando c/o RSB.... I'll play all them bitches, especially the ones (on both sides) that have been mentioned in this thread.

PS- My Daisy Rocks... er...ROCKS! It also saved me about $100 on an SM58 'cuz when I'm playin' it with my teeth (jimi style) I can just keep it there and sing through the pickup! Best buy on the planet f:notworthy for a working musician.:icon_lol:

mike2731
08-21-2006, 08:29 PM
This thread kind of took on a life of it's own. I'm not totally sure how it took the turn it did, but I know I was in the middle of it. :icon_lol: I don't think anyone is implying that the Reissue Baretta is crap, we just have differing opinions on what we think of it as a concept. Some of us question the motivation of the company. It doesn't make the guitar any less to someone who enjoys them. I'm sure they are good guitars, I'd just rather buy 2 originals than 1 reissue. Is that really so hard to fathom?

Also, I'm not sure how the whole Kramer/Music Yo thing became a Gibson discussion. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the guys making the Les Pauls arent the same guys making the Kramers, right? MY is a division of Gibson, but that doesn't make them the same as a USA Gibson.

BeN5150
08-21-2006, 08:38 PM
actually you're right i was talking to Mike W from VK, he says that Gibson had some other company make them

MapleShredder
08-21-2006, 09:54 PM
actually you're right i was talking to Mike W from VK, he says that Gibson had some other company make them

From my understanding is that Epiphone (a division of Gibson) is producing the Kramer USA reissues.

RockStringBender
08-21-2006, 10:45 PM
This thread kind of took on a life of it's own. I'm not totally sure how it took the turn it did, but I know I was in the middle of it. :icon_lol: I don't think anyone is implying that the Reissue Baretta is crap, we just have differing opinions on what we think of it as a concept. Some of us question the motivation of the company. It doesn't make the guitar any less to someone who enjoys them. I'm sure they are good guitars, I'd just rather buy 2 originals than 1 reissue. Is that really so hard to fathom?

Also, I'm not sure how the whole Kramer/Music Yo thing became a Gibson discussion. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the guys making the Les Pauls arent the same guys making the Kramers, right? MY is a division of Gibson, but that doesn't make them the same as a USA Gibson.

I wouldn't feel bad about it. There isn't a single angle in your thread where the new 'retta is getting flamed, it just drifted into the whole marketing side of things- and that's where YO has some 'plaining to do for some people.

As a fan of original Kramers and what they did to the market in the '80s I am somewhat puzzled as to how anyone can turn a blind eye to what YO did in past years to the brand name and model name assignments. I'm a forgiving sort though, and if they want to make amends by reissuing full shred machines, alrighty then. I'll understand the pricing someday.....yeah....no, really.....i 'll get it....... Huh/ What? A fully mint NightSwan with case BIN for $1100.000???? That's where that dude is getting his heartburn and attitude on the price. You can still cop a damn good deal on vintage kramers.

I can dig that an '82 (1st year they started reissues at Fender) strat reisuue of the '59 goes used and in played condition for $1600 when the original starts at $7000 with bullet holes in the body.

I can also dig that that new baretta will outplay a lot of signature axes that go for more than a grand.

Lots of good points made here. (especially CClaws' pimping of the Daisy Rock:icon_lol: )

mike2731
08-21-2006, 10:45 PM
From my understanding is that Epiphone (a division of Gibson) is producing the Kramer USA reissues.

Jeff, Mike said that Epiphone has an outside company making the guitars for them. Gibson actually has no part in the production of the guitars at all. Kind of makes this whole silly debate about the Kramer/Gibson connection kind of moot...

Talisman
08-22-2006, 04:27 AM
I never once said i had hands on experiance with an 85 reissue Baretta.
I saw a guy play one on you tube.

And no i didnt know there was a Kramer forum. Thanks for the heads up.
Maybe we can put this topic to bed. I bet we proberly have a lot in common. Beer,Hunting ,guns and Guitars
Peace
Talisman

axebuilder
08-22-2006, 06:11 AM
I bet we proberly have a lot in common. Beer,Hunting ,guns and Guitars
Peace
Talisman

:thumbs: guns rock!, hunting very cool, beer :eusa_whis evey now and then.
Nothin like sitting in the woods drunk and armed:icon_lol: I use to have fun on fall breaks.
What do you hunt?

Talisman
08-22-2006, 06:41 AM
Mainly Deer and Pheasant. Also enjoy Salmon and trout fishing too.
Its expensive though. But its a nice release.
Talisman:thumbs:

mike2731
08-22-2006, 07:17 AM
I'm not really into the guns and hunting, so I'll just double up on the beer and the guitars....make that triple up on the beer. :thumbs:

axebuilder
08-22-2006, 07:29 AM
Mainly Deer and Pheasant. Also enjoy Salmon and trout fishing too.
Its expensive though. But its a nice release.
Talisman:thumbs:

Cool I have done deer, I switch to a bow the last year or two. Its alot safer that way for me & everyone around

:icon_lol:

BananaHead
08-22-2006, 10:43 AM
Well, I'm not into guns or hunting either, and I'm not much of a beer drinker (i like the hard stuff) so I'll just quadruple up on the GIRLS!:thumbs:

Kramaniac
08-23-2006, 02:16 AM
I own Gibsons Kramers Jacksons & Fenders---

I PLAY Jacksons & Kramers

the whole Gibson bastardization of Kramer makes me want to fucking puke
I'll stick with Vintage Kramers they are great players & cheap as all fuck for the most part..

I think a lot of Kramer owners are a bit bitter they are not worth shit compared to a fender or gibson made the same year of that Kramer.
makes em wish they would have bought that strat since it's worth 1000's & they are lucky to pull 100's out of that same year Kramer.

Not me I'm glad they are cheap as shit I don't want to go toss away thousands on some custom shop Gibson I know I'm not going to play.

I am also a fan of the super strat dinky style Kramers & my favorite axe would also have to be a Jackson then a Kramer..

Yeah the reissue is nice pretty & all that shit but I won't buy one for that price I can grab 2 Jackson's which will please me even more.

but if you want to ride on Gibson's nuts & buy their bastard they nicknamed a Kramer go ahead that leaves more vintage shit for the rest of us

I've noticed since the Kramer expo & all the VK forum guys are broke that Kramers can't be given away right now case in point reverse headstock claw inlayed sustainer could not even get a bid over 300 bucks a month ago he would of got that buy it now of 700 bucks easy..

It's like has been stated already Kramers apeal to a small market music yoyo an even smaller market..

Kramaniac
08-23-2006, 02:19 AM
oh & fuck music yo & gibson but I am still going to hold onto my les paul simply as an investment period you won't catch me playing that turd..

smorgdonkey
08-25-2006, 10:20 AM
I think a lot of Kramer owners are a bit bitter they are not worth shit compared to a fender or gibson made the same year of that Kramer.
makes em wish they would have bought that strat since it's worth 1000's & they are lucky to pull 100's out of that same year Kramer.


I'm not one of them...I haven't yet found a guitar that plays as smooth or has the versatile sound as the Kramer that I bought in 1987...and least of all a Fender...
The people who think that MusicYo/Gibson Kramers aren't worth anything should talk to the people who buy vintage CBS Fenders...CBS bought Fender...it IS NOT THE SAME as a preCBS Fender.

The End.